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Consciousness and Medicine:
Dr. David R. Hawkins disccusses central elements of healing and discoveries in consciousness research...
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UH (Unified Health): My vision was to spend an hour
with you and ask some questions about the nature of your
work and discoveries in consciousness research as it applies
to the domain of health and medicine. For readers who might
not be familiar with your work, if you could just begin by commenting
on the observations and potential applications of
kinesiological testing that you discovered and how that
evolved into the Map of Consciousness?
DH (David R. Hawkins, MD, PhD): I attended a lecture
on kinesiology and tried it out on various people. It was quite
interesting that the negative energy made the person go
weak and the positive energy made them go strong. The
source of the energy did not have to be in physical contact
with the body, just in proximity. So, it was obvious that we
were dealing with an energy field, and that somehow the
human nervous system, the autonomic system, was able to
discern the difference. That was quite amazing.
I began to teach it to the staff at the clinic that I ran; we
were going to use some volunteers. Now, the volunteers
were studying A Course in Miracles at the time; we had an
Attitudinal Healing center at the clinic for people with hopeless
conditions and diseases. I expected these students of
the course to demonstrate the effect of negative energies,
such as looking at fluorescent lights makes everybody go
weak. Well, they did not go weak. In fact, they didn't go
weak to any of the stimuli that made ordinary people go
weak. I became curious about what is different about them;
this led me into the study of consciousness. We were eventually
able to evolve a consciousness scale.
We discovered that the level of energy of anything on the
planet can be calibrated. We also discovered that it worked
beyond time or place. It's a not a local condition; it's transmitted
through the infinite field of consciousness itself. This
was a rather startling discovery. The scale, which is now pretty
famous worldwide, goes from 1 to 1,000 of varying levels
of consciousness, which correlates with psychoanalysis and
also spiritual reality, and the history of mankind, actually. It
has many, many applications that are quite practical.
UH: I believe you have mentioned before that the significance
of this discovery has yet to dawn on mankind. I
remember your comments in a seminar that your inspiration
to share this with the world as being akin to Alexander Fleming's
drive to share the discovery of penicillin, which of
course saved millions of lives.
DH:(Laughter) Oh, yes. When you discover something
of value to mankind you have a sense of responsibility, an
obligation to share it with others; especially when you can
see the very incredibly beneficial results of its use. You discover
the cause of various illnesses. You can discover things
that are not available to the limited, linear intellect; things that
are beyond the reach of reason or logic or education. This
opened a whole new field for investigation, which mankind
has never really had before.
UH: This sense of responsibility to share these discoveries
with others reminds me, too, of another comment I recall
you making about how early on in your career as a physician
you made an inner commitment to God and to your patients
to do everything you could to help others, despite the risk of
disapproval by your colleagues for applying holistic
approaches.
DH: My dedication to my patients was my feeling that my
responsibility to God was to utilize everything I felt was helpful
to the patient and not worry about my colleague's approval - that in the end, I'll be answerable to Divinity for what I did
with the gifts. I was born with a high IQ and all kinds of talented
abilities; that's what I am answerable for when I leave
this planet. What did you do with the gifts that you were born
with? I decided that my obligation was to the patient and to
God and not to the approval of my colleagues.
The holistic approach is far more inclusive than traditional
medicine. Traditional medicine is limited to the scientific paradigm
of what is provable inside of the scientific methodology.
That's scientific medicine. Holistic medicine goes
beyond that and has a wider range of healing modalities,
many of which are not necessarily validated by scientific
research, but are validated by clinical response. Many
patients will respond to holistic measures which are "unscientific."
To the patient and to the training doctor they are of
extreme importance.
When I mentioned acupuncture to an internist I know, he
poo poo'd it and said "you don't believe in that do ya?"
(Laughter) Well...I was one of the first patients in the United
States to have acupuncture. I had a hopeless, chronic, recurrent
duodenal ulcer that was going to lead to the necessity for
subtotal gastrectomy. It was in Washington, DC, and it was
scientifically very well observed. You had to bring x-rays and
everything with you to prove your medical condition. At the
conclusion of treatment they repeated all the same diagnostics,
such as x-rays. From the third treatment, my chronic,
recurrent, hemorrhaging duodenal ulcer was cured and
never recurred in all these years. This was 50 years ago;
permanent long-term cure for something that I had for 25
years. I had psychoanalysis and everything to try and cure
it. So it may not be scientific but it works. (Laughter)
UH: You have also commented that you have a great
love for animals, and that early in your life you could have
easily become a veterinarian.
DH: Yes. (Laughter) I would have been happy as a veterinarian.
What inspires me is the relief of suffering. Whether
you can do it by intellectual means, or holistic health, or whatever
means. What inspires me is the relief of suffering,
human or otherwise. Every night I pray for the relief of suffering
of the animal kingdom... including man. (Laughter)
UH: A central aspect of your work seems to suggest that
when things are viewed in a larger context, seeming conflicts
are resolved. In consciousness research you have noted a
difference between scientific medicine and holistic or spiritually
inspired medicine. As I understand it, when seen in a different
context, there really isn't a conflict between these
approaches? Would you explain what is meant by that?
DH: The world thinks that there is. Actually they are two
different paradigms. The scientific paradigm calibrates at
440. Holistic medicine calibrates five points higher at 445.
But, when you're in the 400s, five points is a significant
increase. And when you treat many, many patients that
increase has a profound effect on the number of patients who
respond. The thing about holistic medicine is you are instituting
the power of intention. As we know from quantum
mechanics, the power of intention itself is what collapses the
wave function from the potential or possible to the actual.
I noticed many years ago when I had a very big clinic that
some therapists had a very high improvement rate and other
therapists had a lesser improvement rate, even though they
had the same academic backgrounds. I found that the person
who was the most loving, in its generic meaning - loving not
on a personal level but caringness and considerateness - made a big difference in the response.
UH: In the clinical outcomes?
DH: Yeah, and that's not something that is taught in medical
school.
UH: The quality of consciousness of the clinician is one
of the unnoticed factors in really all clinical or academic
research.
DH: Yes. They just don't understand the nature of consciousness.
Of course, one thing that hasn't been studied is
the consciousness effect in collapsing the wave function.
That's experimentally provable, but theyve never considered
the power of the consciousness of the observer. So, the
observer increases the likelihood of the collapse of the wave
function from potentiality into actuality. A person of a very
high level of consciousness may have a far more profound
effect and bring about the unlikely responses - that from a
scientific view point, let's say, are unlikely. All they are saying
is that consciousness changes it but they are not defining
what level of consciousness; generally, they are talking about
scientific observation. They mean somebody who calibrates
in the 400s will increase the likelihood of certain responses.
But what if you had somebody who calibrates in the 500s?
The 500s is exponentially far more powerful. So, caringness
and lovingness on the part of the clinician means the number
of his patients who recover will be considerably higher.
UH: The power of that energy field in the clinician who
might calibrate in the 500s is not personal, correct?
DH: Yes. It has to do with the likelihood of a positive
result increased by the level of consciousness of the observer.
Again, this is just the power of intention. But the intention is
really not to heal or to cure. The intention is not dualistic
between yourself and the patient, as though there are only
two people. The excellent clinician has a caringness about
life, period. A caringness about life. So, it isn't like it is a one to
one, you know, giving love to the patient. It's more that's
what you have become. And because you have become that,
your impact on all living things is far more powerful and more
positive.
UH: A patient who is in the presence of someone like that
might just walk out of a session not knowing where it came
from but feeling a lot more hopeful and confident.
DH: That's true. Caringness is not really taught in the
university. There is a fear of a positive countertransference.
There are various pseudo-scientific objections to caring for a
patient - because they think of it in a one-to-one relationship,
instead of just an attitude towards life from which their patient
benefits indirectly. Indirectly. I have had various illnesses
over my lifetime and myself experienced the clinicians that
were, frankly, bad. (Laughter) They weren't too sharp with
their medical diagnosis and they were indifferent and callous
to the point of almost being rude.
I went to a dermatologist not long ago, a new one, who had
the office staff do all the questioning and everything. He
walked into the room, glanced over the questionnaire, took a
look at me as though I were a piece of wood. Absolutely no
graciousness, no ambiance that would make you want to
know him as a person. So indifferent, detached and lacking
in positive energy that it was almost bizarre. He was only
paying attention to the record and the number of things that
were checked off on the symptom list. I am sure he was
doing his job scientifically, but as a person, a disaster.
(Laughter)
UH:(Laughter) Speaking to this concern about a positive
countertransference, ultimately, a really loving clinician
leaves the patient feeling more empowered within themselves
and not necessarily dependent on the clinician...
correct?
DH: Well, they feel at first that somebody cares about
their condition. It's the caringness that is significant to the
patient. That you are trying everything you can on their
behalf as evidence of your caringness. A patient who has a
positive transference is more likely to heal than one that
doesn't. So everything you do that makes the patient feel
safe and secure and looked after by a responsible person trying
to help them in every way they can, feels more secure
and cared for. And that certainly increases the likelihood of a
recovery.
UH: You know, speaking of your dermatology example,
a friend of mine recently had a cancerous mole removed on
her face and she commented that she was so struck by the
tenderness and love of the clinicians who stood above her
working gently for over an hour. It really moved her.
DH: Well, I think the same thing would be applicable to a
veterinarian, you know. A veterinarian cares and loves his
animals, the animals feel the love, and they are likely to have
a better response than a veterinarian who is just mechanical.
(Laughter) I think all living things respond to caringness and
concern. Some gardeners, you know, no matter what they
put in the ground, it proliferates. Other gardeners don't have
such good luck; they have a hard time getting things to grow.
UH: Would you comment on the difference between
recovery and healing?
DH: Well, recovery means that the specific illness or
symptoms have disappeared. Full recovery would mean that
you also understand the sources of it, and have taken steps
to heal the sources of it, whether it is anxiety or... Unconscious
guilt is probably the biggest contributor to all kinds of
illnesses. For instance, people who do A Course in Miracles
or belong to 12-step groups, are interested in healing the
whole person and not just the particular disease. You know,
what is there about me that has a propensity to bring forth an
ulcer? Because I had one for 25 years and I ended up going
into psychoanalysis and looking into all kinds of things that
could be causing stress, you know.
UH: Would you say more about unconscious guilt influencing
disease?
DH: Yes. I think that it's operative because of the nature
of human life. It's almost impossible not to collect some
degree of unconscious guilt. Because you hold yourself
responsible for every failure and you are looking at your life
in a very linear, cause-and-effect relationship. Instead of
seeing it more as a condition of humanness itself and that
humanness is intrinsically imperfect, from an abstract intellectual
view. We hold criteria for our behaviors that cannot be
met in ordinary life. You know, it's almost impossible not to
forget something that is relatively important. You feel guilty;
how could you have forgotten about that? You miss the payment
date, or whatever it is.
UH: Yep (Laughter)...
DH: And you berate yourself. You have to be more forgiving
of yourself, more tolerant of human limitation. The less
you berate yourself, the less you make yourself feel guilty,
the better it is.
UH: Would you explain the difference between culpability
and accountability in relation to health and disease?
DH: Yes, one can take responsibility and be accountable,
and at the same time not necessarily feel morally
responsible. Because everyone lives within, you might say,
the karmic limitations of humanness and ignorance. One of
the limitations of humanness is the nature of protoplasm
itself. (Laughter) We've all inherited the limitations of protoplasm
itself, which is relatively fragile, and has its own life
span. You can't always berate yourself for what is really a limitation
of our own organic nature. We're organic, you know.
(Laughter)
UH: Things break down! (Laughter)
DH: Right. (Laughter) All you have to do is stand still and
do nothing and it starts to deteriorate.
UH: You can stand in front of the mirror and just watch it
do its thing (Laughter)... Another question I have has to do
with your discoveries and research on the etheric body, or
etheric brain, and the physical brain. I understand there is a
difference in how these work above and below consciousness
level 200.
DH: The physical body is a consequence of the etheric
body. The etheric body is really the energy field which controls
the development and the operation of the physical body.
This etheric body survives the demise of the physical body;
it's called the spiritual body. The etheric body, then, has the
template of the physical body within it. The physical is the
expression of the etheric.
The connection between the two is what has puzzled the
scientist who is constantly trying to find the source within the
human brain anatomically. What they don't understand is that
the etheric brain, which is an energy brain, influences the
physical brain by the phenomena of induction. Crick and
Watson, winners of the Nobel Prize, and both atheist, were
always trying to find the source of consciousness in the brain
neurons, or something like that. What they don't understand
is that the etheric brain is the energy field, and it energizes
the neurons similar to Maxwell's relationship between magnetism
and electricity. If you hold a magnetic field around an
electrical wire, you induce a current. Or, if you do it the other
way; put electricity down the wire, and you induce a magnetic
field around the wire.
The etheric body, then, activates the neurons by induction.
What you hold in mind tends to manifest by virtue of the fact
that you are holding it within your etheric brain, which then
activates the neurons. Science still doesn't understand the
connection between consciousness and the brain. It's comparable
to Maxwell's relationship between magnetism and
electricity. And it is very simple and obvious to see. If you
check with kinesiology and ask if that's the answer, you get
yes, that is the answer. (Laughter)
UH: As it relates to the Map of Consciousness, the more
spiritually inspired or loving intention or image one might hold
in the etheric body or brain will have a more powerful influence
on the physical brain. Is that correct?
DH: Yes. The physiology of the brain above the level 200
is influenced by what has traditionally been called Kundalini
energy. The brain physiology of people higher in consciousness
is actually different than the brain physiology of people
below 200. Below 200, the brain is primarily animal left brain,
and functions out of a linear causality. With spiritual evolution,
there is the flow of the Kundalini energy, and the person
becomes more holistic and right-brained, intuitive and not
just limited by linear logic and causality. The animal brain is
what man tries to transcend.
UH: And the way information or events are processed in
the brain, and the likely responses that follow, are quite different
for people above and below consciousness level 200?
DH: Yes, and I have diagrams in a number of books on
this. The emergency emotions from 200 or below activate an
animal type response in the amygdala of the brain. The energy
field of that is quite low; it's a localized fear or adrenaline
response. The person thinks in terms of fear and anger, animal
survival. In the more evolved person, consequent to the
Kundalini energy, the response is far more holistic, and it calibrates
much, much higher. The people above and below 200
literally experience life as two different worlds, and really live
in two different worlds.
UH: The people below 200 exist but are not aware that
they do?
DH:(Laughter) In the fullest sense, they are not aware
of themselves as existence itself. They only have a very linear,
animal description of themselves. And they don't understand
that what they really are is not definable in scientific
terms.
UH: Would you comment on the healing power of the
energy field of 540, as reflected in 12-step programs?
DH: Yes, well. 540 and up is the energy field of unconditional
love; it tends to heal whatever is brought into its presence.
Therefore, in the 12-step groups, for instance, people
recover who don't even believe in it. The saying in the 12-step
groups is "just bring your body and go to the meetings."
Because that overall energy will gradually bring about a healing which is not possible on an individual basis. The group
energy is uplifting, and has a healing capacity. Unconditional
love tends to heal anything that you put in the field. That's
the basis of the saying "just bring the body." Just bring the
body even if you don't believe it. Many people who scoffed
at the whole idea of spirituality or AA or any of those things
just go to the meetings and miraculously recover. (Laughter)
And the spiritual awareness comes later.
Other spiritual groups have the same affect. To just be in
the presence you tend to evolve more rapidly because of the
overall energy field.
UH: In the context of addictions, the addict is not addicted
to the substance itself, but to the experience of the presence
of love within?
DH: They are addicted to a high energy field. The only
way they know how to get it is via narcotics or drugs or alcohol.
What the narcotics, or the drugs or the alcohol do is suppress
the lower energy fields, so all you feel is your own higher
feelings, because the lower ones are sedated. Fear and
anger and all those things become sedated due to the drug
or the alcohol; naturally, you feel good because you are only
feeling your own higher energy fields. With spiritual evolution
you begin to let go of the negative and you begin to feel the
higher energy fields without the narcotic. What the person is
really addicted to is feeling euphoria, or feeling high, feeling
mellow or feeling good. They just don't know how else to
reach it except to sedate the animal side of their brain.
UH: Reaching a higher level artificially has a karmic consequence - is that right?
DH: Well, that's true, because you avoided spiritual evolution
and substituted a drug for it. As long as the person is
taking drugs they will not evolve spiritually. In fact, the only
way they do it, finally, is they hit bottom. And when they hit
bottom, throw all caution to the winds and throw themselves
wholeheartedly into a spiritual program, out of the wild hope
of a recovery. Much to their surprise they begin to feel a happiness
that they never felt before, and greater immunity to
negative feelings. Of course, they also have the support of a
group of people who are also loving. It's a whole new life; it's
like being reborn when they join a 12-step group.
UH: Would you comment on karma?
DH In the western world, karma as a topic is neither
understood nor accepted. It's prevalent of course, in the Far
East cultures, certainly those that are Buddhist and Hindu,
etc. It is the presumption in the eastern cultures. Western
culture actually believes in karma, but they don't identify it by
that terminology. The inheritance of mankind is already stated,
that it is karmically fated by virtue of the Garden of Eden,
man's fall from grace. The Garden of Eden radiates down
through mankind, karmically. As an individual you were never
in the Garden of Eden, and didn't make a mistake, and didn't
listen to the serpent (Laughter)... but you are still paying the
price. Western man also believes in karma, but not as a specific
term. More specifically in the east, it is seen as a
sequence of lifetimes. The evolution of the soul goes through
many embodiments before it reaches, hopefully, perfection.
UH: It seems that one of the most striking discoveries or
statements that calibrates as true, is the discovery that we
are all born into karmically optimal circumstances for our optimal
spiritual growth.
DH: Yes, that's a discovery of consciousness research. I
don't know if it's also a Buddhist concept or not, but I suspect
it probably is, as well. Whatever the circumstances you find
yourself in, they are absolutely perfect for what you need to
know and how you need to grow.
UH: And it seems like just accepting that as provisionally
true can just take a whole load off ya, you know...
DH: (Laughter) Yes,... you don't have to feel guilty that
you're born dumb and ugly!
UH:(Laughter) I am perfectly limited in my intellectual
incapacities... With regard to karma, another confirmable
discovery is that each person is born with a specific level of
consciousness.
DH: Yes, that's true. You can diagnosis the level of consciousness
the instant an infant is born. Without karma, how
would you explain that they're born so differently? The fact
that each one already has a calibrated level of consciousness
at birth suggests that man's inheritance is something
other than just physical. Otherwise how would we be born so
differently?
UH: And what about freedom and accountability in
karma?
DH: Freedom and accountability are all within certain
parameters. What you inherit are certain propensities, but
you have likelihoods. It is really cascading levels of dominance
in the field of consciousness. What you are inheriting
is likelihoods. The energy field of likelihoods, and this is also
verified scientifically by neurophysiology, that depending on
the level of cascading groups of neurons, you are more likely
to make certain choices than other choices. Spiritual evolution,
then, is setting up various paradigms of relative dominance
and of relative power.
There are some people who under no circumstances
would ever do certain acts, no matter what. There are other
people that will do that very thing for the chances of slight
gain. To embezzle, for instance. At least once a week in the
paper there is an expose of some person responsible at
some major church who has been embezzling money for, you
know, decades. (Laughter) The secretary of the church of
the Holy Redeemer has embezzled $520,000 over the last
ten years. That is a relatively not uncommon phenomenon.
In the newspaper here in Arizona at least once a week somebody
is discovered embezzling from some church or something.
(Laughter)
UH: Speaking of likelihoods, say someone wakes up in
the morning of a certain level of consciousness and makes a
commitment to be loving to everyone they encounter and all
of life that day...
DH: That's going to have a dominant effect on your
responses.
UH: And increase the likelihood that you'll, most of the
time, let's say, choose to be kind...
DH: You're talking about likelihoods. And the reason
people get into arguments about it is they contextualize it in
the Newtonian paradigm of cause and effect. It doesn't work
like cause and effect. It works as levels of dominance; the
likelihood of certain energy fields dominating. It's not deterministic
causality, because choice then gives you all the open
options. The range of choices is determined karmically by
your level of consciousness; to give up your life for your
country is an option for certain people at a certain level. It
would never be a consideration for another person at a different
level. They would never give up their life for the good of
mankind or for their country, etc.
UH: That reminds me of a story about a Medal of Honor
recipient from Iraq, Michael Monsoor, who instead of jumping
to safety to save his own life, he dove on a grenade to save
his...
DH: Yes, he saved the whole platoon.
UH: I recently read a story on him and the love and
courage in that was indescribable.
DH: That's the kind of love that people in the service
understand. The reenlistment rate is extremely high if the
time for reenlistment comes up for a whole battalion at once;
it is much lower if it only comes up individual by individual.
There was a TV series based on that phenomenon of bonding
that goes on between fellow warriors. It's a very strong
love, you know, a very strong love.
UH: In the context of consciousness, when one gives up
their life for something greater than their personal self,
whether for a friend or nation... it really raises one's level of
consciousness.
DH: Yes, indeed. The willingness to give all the way to
the level of even life itself out of compassion and concern
and love for your fellow man is a very high gift and it raises
one's level of consciousness rapidly and enormously.
UH: As you know, most of our readers are clinicians of
various backgrounds. Would you comment on how they
might contextualize their healing work?
DH: There is the difference between treating and healing.
Treating is linear, scientific, logical. It follows the Newtonian
paradigm. Healing is far more inclusive. It includes all
modalities, it is nonlinear, such as intention. You know, I had
the largest practice as a psychiatrist in the United States for
25 years or something. And we used every possible modality
that might benefit a patient. You never know which one of
them is going to have an effect. Many of those things don't
cost anything and they're ultra simple.
Functional hypoglycemia is probably the most common
misdiagnosis in the medical field, certainly in the psychiatric
field. When a patient used to call and make an appointment
I told them,"Stop all sugar and sweets until I see ya!" Twenty
five percent of the time, by the time I saw the patient, they
were asymptomatic. It helped the patients with anxiety,
depression, rage attacks, whatever it might be. Twenty-five
percent were asymptomatic by the time I saw them! Functional hypoglycemia is probably the most under-diagnosed
phenomenon that goes across all branches of medicine.
Of course, first of all, practically speaking you just do it as
a therapeutic modality. But if you want you can get a six-hour
glucose tolerance test to prove it. I would tell the more scientifically
minded person to suggest to the patient to cut out
all sugar and sweets, switch from glucose to fructose
because it is in a lot of sweets. The health food store makes
all kinds of candy bars and stuff out of fructose. Fructose
does not create a hyper insulin response, so you can have a
candy bar made out of fructose and you won't get a drop in
your blood sugar later. But the average candy bar will first
raise your blood sugar really high then drop it down rapidly.
Then you feel like you want more sweets or starch or something.
I tell people cut out sugar and sweets and switch to the
fructose only; many diseases cure themselves by just doing
that. So you know, the clinicians who liked to poo poo functional
hypoglycemia - they didn't know what they were talking
about. We saw patients go psychotic and become combative
and bizarre and assaultive from the effects of functional
hypoglycemia.
Even more holistic is the whole concept of food allergy,
which is foreign to medicine. Food allergy is another thing
we tested for in the clinic. We put a very dilute solution of
potato, or whatever it was, under the patient's tongue; then
we took their blood pressure and pulse. The minute you put
certain dilute substances under the tongue, some people
would show an instant rise in blood pressure and pulse.
We've had patients go psychotic right on the spot, even dangerously
so.
You can use rotation diets; eliminate all beef for one week,
or all potato, or whatever the food, some common thing. I
remember a patient who had been chronically hospitalized
for 25 years by a very wealthy family. We ran the test on him;
when we put the potato underneath his tongue he became
assaultive, paranoid and dangerous. As long as he stayed
off potatoes he was calm and quite manageable. It's very
gratifying if you are a treating doctor to try these things that
are less known.
UH: They're also really harmless to try.
DH: Yes, and they cost absolutely nothing. Don't forget,
very experienced clinicians have evolved these understandings
and discoveries and shared them in a responsible way.
It's a waste of time to poo poo it just because it's outside your
field of experience.
UH: Maybe we could close this interview by asking you
to comment on prayer and healing, and what you mean by
"living your life like a prayer"?
DH: Yes. Well, instead of just talking about a thing you
become it. You influence the world. Lots of people are very
busy with various save-the-world schemes. Let's save the
world. You don't save the world by what you say and pep rallies
for peace. You influence the world by what you have
become, what you are. What you are powerfully and constantly
influences the collective level of consciousness of
mankind. Words are cheap. And peace rallies are a dime a
dozen. I don't go to peace rallies because they are too violent.
There's the police and dogs, people making a parade
out of it, an exhibition out of it. It doesn't bring any improvement
in the world at all. The thing you can contribute most to
the world is to be kind to all living things, under all conditions.
You make your life a prayer, by adopting lovingness towards
all that exists as your lifestyle. And then you influence all that
you do, you know.
UH: Whether you're a vet, a doctor or a truck driver.
DH: That's right. And that same lovingness applies to the
clinician. Clinicians who calibrate high have enormous practices,
and their effect radiates out. So, we try to influence the
world by what we have become, not what we say, because
talk is cheap. You can watch television news everyday and
hear all kinds of cheap talk, and that does nothing at all for
the world, you know. It is what you have actually become.
Because that influences what you do, and influences others
indirectly.
UH: Thank you so much for your time, Dr. Hawkins.
DH: Thank you for asking me and I am honored by the
request.
